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TRANSCRIPT

Prepared by Ellie Persse

 

Evan Davis:  The Commander of NATO led Coalition forces in Afghanistan, General David Petraeus, has not been in post long, about seven weeks.  But he’s been speaking to the BBC’s World Affairs Editor John Simpson in Kabul.

We can hear that interview now.  John put to him the point that in the markets in Kabul and even in Britain and the United States where the majority of people are against the war, people think the Taliban are winning it.

General David Petraeus (Coalition Commander in Afghanistan):  Well and in fact I think that over time we obviously have to change that perception because I think the reality is that the momentum that the Taliban had established over the course of recent years has been reversed in many of the areas of the country and will be reversed in the other areas as well.  Now that’s not enough, you not only have to reverse the momentum, of course you have to take away the sanctuaries and safe havens that the Taliban have been able to establish over the course of those years that they enjoyed the momentum and that’s going to entail tough fighting.

We have reversed the momentum certainly in Helmand Province.  We’re beginning the reversal of that in Kandahar Province, again enemy fighting back.  That’s to be expected.  We’ve achieved the same certainly around Kabul pushing that security zone out.  The fact is by the way, you know, occasionally people say well when will the Afghans start taking on these security tasks.  They have in Kabul.  They, they are in the lead in security in all but one of the districts of Kabul city.

John Simpson:  But June and July were the worst months there’ve been in this war for the deaths of the soldiers under your command.

DP:  Indeed, when, when you take away areas that mean a great deal to the enemy, the enemy fights back.  As I said it gets harder before it gets easier.

JS:  You, you’ve got Washington breathing down your neck all the time saying look we’ve got to start pulling troops out in July of next year, less than a year away.  How can you fight an insurgency which takes patience and care and thought and time if you’ve got less than a year to get started?

DP:  Well I think it’s very important to remember what July 2011 actually is.  That’s a date when a process begins, nothing more, nothing less.  It’s not the date when the American forces begin an exodus and look for the exit and the light to turn off on the way out of the room.  It’s a date when a process of transition of some tasks to some Afghan forces in those areas where the conditions allow it and at a pace allowed by the conditions.

That’s what begins then and I think there is time, during that time we clearly must make the kind of progress that shows the publics around the world in those troop contributing nations that there is a dividend on the enormous investment that they have been making and that there is indeed the prospect that the collective objectives of all engaged here including our Afghan partners can indeed be achieved.

JS:  But come July of next year if you don’t think it’s right, if you don’t think it’s possible you will say we can’t withdraw now and the President will accept that?

DP:  Come July 2011 I will offer the President my best professional military advice.

JS:  And he’ll accept that no matter what it is?

DP:  No, I don’t think so.  That’s not the way the process should work and it could very well be that he, that he may not accept all or part of that advice and at the end of the day our job is to provide that advice and then to salute smartly and drive on when the decision is made.

JS:  You’re not worried that like General McChrystal you might also be sacked here?

DP:  I, I think when you go in to a job like this John you think that it’s your last job.  That’s what I did in Iraq, again you are determined to do the very best you can in this particular position again to provide your most forthright assessments and advice and you leave all the rest of that to, to others.

JS:  A lot of people would say the real fault for all this, the fault for the Taliban being able to get together again and come back was because America took its eye off the ball, invaded Iraq and then quite soon had its own problems in Iraq and Afghanistan was left to its own devices.

DP:  I think that would probably be a bit over simplistic, but there’s no question that this was acknowledged as an economy of force effort.  There is no question that Iraq was the priority.  I, I came to Afghanistan in September 2005 on my way home from a second tour in Iraq at the request of the Secretary of Defence and Afghanistan was assessed publicly by a lot of outside observers it was described as a war we were winning, Iraq of course being the war that we were losing.  And I offered that I thought that Afghanistan was going to be the longest war in what we then called, the longest campaign actually in what we then called the long war.  That did not elicit wild applause on the third floor of the Pentagon, but it was my assessment then and sadly I guess that has seen to be proven out.

JS:  Can I finally just, just ask you one thing, could you look the families of American, British, Canadian, other NATO troops in the face and say to them the sacrifice of your son, brother, husband, was worth it?  It wasn’t just a life thrown away unnecessarily.

DP:  If I could I, just a real quick story I guess from when I was a Division Commander in Iraq, it was when I was in Mosul in fact and not long after you’d been up there as a matter of fact.  And we had a terrible collision of two helicopters and we lost seventeen of our great Troopers in a single event in a single night and my head was literally down as I came out of the Command Post and a, and a young Trooper put his arm around me and he said you know Sir, that’s seventeen more reasons to get this right.  And, and he was absolutely right.

Evan Davis:  General David Petraeus there talking to BBC World Affairs Editor John Simpson.